Editing Talk:Nonbinary gender in fiction

== Is this a typo? SnaiLords ==

;Tapastic webcomics
...
*''[http://tapastic.com/episode/40617 Snailed It]'' by SnaiLords, who "identifies with both genders" and described themselves as an "andogynous snail".

It's hard to tell because the title has a typo in it by design! Does anyone who knows the source material know if the description should say "androgynous" or "andogynous" snail? --'''[[User:Cassolotl|<span style="color:#008000">Cassolotl</span>]]''' ''<small>([[User_Talk:Cassolotl|talk]]) <span style="color:#808080">pronouns: they/them</span></small>'' 09:28, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
:{{ping|Cassolotl}} [https://tapas.io/aidynhuynh SnaiLords]' profile says that he identifies as androgynous, at the bottom (almost) of his bio. Thanks for pointing it out! --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 18:41, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

== People to add to the TV section ==

I'm too sleepy to do it but maybe someone else is more awake?

* <del>Taylor Mason, Billions, played by Asia Kate Dillon who is also nonbinary, they/them pronouns</del> - Done! --'''[[User:Cassolotl|<span style="color:#008000">Cassolotl</span>]]''' ''<small>([[User_Talk:Cassolotl|talk]]) <span style="color:#808080">pronouns: they/them</span></small>'' 10:17, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
* Syd, One Day at a Time, they/them pronouns
* Yael, Degrassi https://www.vulture.com/2017/07/degrassi-next-class-yael-gender-fluid-character.html
* Susie, Chilling Adventures of Sabrina, https://www.teenvogue.com/story/lachlan-watson-susie-putnam-chilling-adventures-of-sabrina called "she" throughout but with a babytrans plot going on, apparently they are still in the self-discovery phase

--'''[[User:Cassolotl|<span style="color:#008000">Cassolotl</span>]]''' ''<small>([[User_Talk:Cassolotl|talk]]) <span style="color:#808080">pronouns: they/them</span></small>'' 15:58, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

== Title change ==

I changed the title of this article from "fictional depictions of nonbinary gender" to "nonbinary gender in fiction." The new title is more appropriately worded, because fictional depictions would imply something that is itself fictional and nonexistent, rather than just something that is in a work of fiction. For example, the difference between the fictional book ''The Neverending Story'' (which is a supernatural artifact that doesn't exist in real life, and wasn't written by any one human being) that is described within the fiction book ''The Neverending Story'' (which is an ordinary book that can be found in any library, written by Michael Ende). Plus, the old article title was more wordy than it needed to be. -[[User:Sekhet|Sekhet]] ([[User talk:Sekhet|talk]]) 14:55, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

== The Good Place & Years and Years ==

Any reason Janet from The Good Place is not mentioned?

Also, maybe Lincoln Lyons from Years and Years? ("Are we calling that a t-shirt or are we calling that a dress?""I don’t think it matters.""No. He looks beautiful.")
:Hi! No, there is no reason in particular. We are a wiki, which means that we are permanently under construction! If you want to see them added, the quickest way is to add them yourself. Editing a page is easy —you just did by leaving this message! Don't worry about breaking something, we check all changes and if something back happens we can go back to a previous version of the page. Thank you! :) --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 18:32, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

I would add Janet, Janet is nonhuman and thus might fall under "fictional sexes" but I'm not totally sure.--[[User:TXJ|TXJ]] ([[User talk:TXJ|talk]]) 00:00, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

== Splitting the page? ==

This page with all its sections and subsections is getting a bit unwieldy. I see somehow we have [[Undisclosed gender in fiction]] as a separate page which seems good to me as that's very clearly a different topic from nonbinary genders. But the Undisclosed Gender section is still also on this page? --[[User:TXJ|TXJ]] ([[User talk:TXJ|talk]]) 00:06, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
:{{ping|TXJ}} good catch. I think you can go ahead and delete that section from this page as duplicate content; [[Undisclosed gender in fiction]] is already in the ''See also'' section, so it shouldn't be accessible enough. --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 11:33, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

== More organization ==

I wish this section, and others like it, were more organized. Right now it's fine, but in the future as more things get added I would want to be able to search for specific things. Like, maybe I wanted to only read fiction written by non-binary people with non-binary characters (#ownvoices and all that). This list would make it difficult to search for this. Or, maybe I'm only interested in romance stories featuring non-binary characters. etc. etc.

Would you guys be interested in making this section into a table, which could be searched more easily? This is kind of a long list, and we might want to shave it down to make it easy. All the sections would be optional to fill in of course, but then others could later fill it in to make it more complete. I wouldn't mind helping to set it up, but only if everyone is okay with it.

Let me know what you think <3

Examples of categories:

* Artist/Author/Director(s), and their genders if known (would make it easy to compare how enbies are written by different genders) and would make it easy for people to read own voices if they wanted to. 
* Published date or starting date for ongoing series 
* Title 
* Publishing company (make it easier for enbies to find enby friendly publishers) 
* genre(s) 
* Content Warnings (if a particular work has content some people would want to avoid like sexual assault, making it so it's easy to avoid wouldn't hurt. Also good for seeing what type of content is being made with enby characters. For example, fridging can often be used with women and someone could see if enbies go through something similar, etc etc. 
* Which character is canonically nonbinary. maybe even stating if they are a protagonist or a side character. 
* Fun Enby Facts, additional things which relate to enbies. For example, a nonbinary movie character is also played by an enby like in John Wick 3.

--[[User:Bean3000|Bean3000]] ([[User talk:Bean3000|talk]]) 11:09, 01 April 2020 (UTC)

:Yes, this page is in need of some organization, definitely. A table is a good idea, especially since wiki table and be sorted by any of the columns, so looking up specific genres, for example, would be very easy. I'm ok with all the categories you suggest, some comments:
:* Content Warnings: we should probably define what constitutes a content warning and write it down as a wiki policy. We have other pages with CW notices (e.g. [[binding]]) but we don't actually have a list of all content that needs to be CW'd. This is of course something that affects the wiki as a whole, but I thought I'd mention it since it's very subjective.
:* "Fun Enby Fact": I would just say "Notes", it's more neutral and more generic (and doesn't use ''enby'', which would exclude any other gender-variant-related stuff that is not specifically nonbinary).
: Let me know what you think! I'll share a link to this thread on the Discord channel so maybe we can get more opinions. Thanks for bringing it up! --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 10:11, 2 April 2020 (UTC)

: {{ping|Ondo}}  I agree with all the things you suggested. Would it be okay to test this table system out with just the animation section? This way, we can see what it would look like before we spent time changing the entire page.--[[User:Bean3000|Bean3000]] ([[User talk:Bean3000|talk]]) 08:54, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

::{{ping|Bean3000}} of course, go ahead! Old version of pages are always saved, so we can always go back to the current version if we don't like it. --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 09:45, 5 April 2020 (UTC)

== the book "Ice Song" ==

From the book description and reviews of ''Ice Song'' (by Kirsten Imani Kasai), I'm not 100% sure if this would fall under the main nonbinary characters section or the "Fictional sexes" section. It definitely seems to be on more the fantasy side.
{{quote|Sorykah Minuit is a scholar, an engineer, and the sole woman aboard an ice-drilling submarine in the frozen land of the Sigue. What no one knows is that she is also a Trader: one who can switch genders suddenly, a rare corporeal deviance universally met with fascination and superstition and all too often punished by harassment or death.

Sorykah's infant twins, Leander and Ayeda, have inherited their mother's Trader genes. When a wealthy, reclusive madman known as the Collector abducts the babies to use in his dreadful experiments, Sorykah and her male alter-ego, Soryk, must cross icy wastes and a primeval forest to get them back. Complicating the dangerous journey is the fact that Sorykah and Soryk do not share memories: Each disorienting transformation is like awakening with a jolt from a deep and dreamless sleep.}}
--[[User:TXJ|TXJ]] ([[User talk:TXJ|talk]]) 14:57, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
:Agreed, this should be in the fictional section. --[[User:Ondo|Ondo]] ([[User talk:Ondo|talk]]) 15:21, 5 April 2021 (UTC)