Nonbinary Wiki:General discussion

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About this board

This is the place where discussion between Nonbinary Wiki editors happens. Although this page can be very useful to keep track of important decisions, we also have a Discord server with some of our editors (and readers). You can join us!

Previous discussions are archived in Nonbinary Wiki:General discussion/Archive 1 (2020-04-08).

Summary by Amazingakita

deleted the article

Armorica Online (talkcontribs)

Good day! Something I noticed while looking through the list of content pages was an article with, well... no content.

A list of unorthodox names was completely blank, and according to the revision history, it has been for more than 6 months.

Since there isn't any place for "articles for deletion" like there is on Wikipedia, what should be done for articles like these? I've tagged it with a notability warning, but that doesn't quite feel right here. I don't think there are too many like this, so I suppose they could just be deleted on a case-by-case basis if need be.

Amazingakita (talkcontribs)

yeah, this one must have slipped through our notice - generally a topic on the page itself pointing out it's empty is enough for us, it'll bring it to our attention

can you delete unused pride flags?

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2A02:A312:C742:AF80:51E9:B749:84A3:C183 (talkcontribs)

can you delete unused pride flags?

Reply to "can you delete unused pride flags?"

Can we import this age template?

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Cassolotl (talkcontribs)
Ondo (talkcontribs)

I just noticed this topic has gone unnoticed for eight month! Do you (or anyone else) still need this template?

Tacit Rhei (talkcontribs)

Would be good to have a technical solution for ages, sinec they tend to change once a year (Tilda Swinton's age is currently hand-typed).

Ondo (talkcontribs)

I've imported {{Birth date and age}} as well as {{birth date}}. Later I'll probably do other templates for dead people or for when only the year is known.

Tacit Rhei (talkcontribs)

Much cherished!

Reply to "Can we import this age template?"
Summary by Ondo

Relationship between the German wiki and us. We're independent projects but we agreed to link to each other.

Tacit Rhei (talkcontribs)

Hi, I noticed that the sidebar hast that headline and for some articles I get refered there to a German "version" of the article. In fact, that link goes to German Nichtbinär-Wiki (nibi.space) who seem to operate independently from this one. I gather this is based on where I am, but my question is: Are there any affiliations or did some 'magic' from within the system decide to plot the two in parallel? Thanks, and have a good time, everyones!

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi! Admin here. Nichtbinär-Wiki is indeed operated by different people, they even use a different platform. But I got in touch with them a while back and we decided to link the wikis together. Most pages that also exist in the German wiki should be linked, and pages there should link back too (in their last email, they were still working on it). So, to summarise, we are independent projects but because we're related in scope, our common articles are linked.

I hope this answers the question, let me know if you have any other questions!

Tacit Rhei (talkcontribs)

Thanks a lot, that saves on headaches (and tells me that I maybe should browse more in German webspace.)

Summary by Ondo

Looking for external resources

Oxyaena (talkcontribs)

Are there any wikis for, say, trans issues that don't fall under the purview of this particular wiki?

Ondo (talkcontribs)

I know there's the Gender Wiki and the LGBT Wiki. I suppose it's clear, but we're not affiliated with each other or related to any way.

Summary by Ondo

Explaining how the new NBDb-based infoboxes work

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi! A while ago we renovated some of the templates, now I'm working on an infobox renovation. We currently have two infoboxes: {{infobox identity}} and {{infobox person}}. This time, the renovation has three parts:

Style

I've changed the style of the infobox to a cleaner one, similar to the last template renovation. You can see an example of the new {{infobox identity}} concept in User:Ondo/Sandbox.

The change is basically for consistency with the general wiki style (main page boxes, new templates) and it also adds more contrast to the infobox contents (black on white, instead of black on yellow).

Infobox building

With the Module:infobox and the generic template {{infobox}} (not to be used directly on articles) building infoboxes is now even easier. The code for the sandbox example is in User:Ondo/tests.

This system is flexible enough to create any kind of infobox (it's the system used by Wikipedia) in a very straight-forward way.

NBDb integration

If you edit User:Ondo/Sandbox, you will notice that the template has no parameters, and yet there's a lot of information when you view it! That's because the template connects to the NBDb, our sister project, and grabs the data from there. In particular, this page is taking the data from this test item (which will be deleted when/if this proposal is approved). Since it's a test item, feel free to mess around with it to see how the infobox contents change!

The advantage of that is that it will be easier to update information (for example, when the gender census results come out), since everything is unified in a single page, It might even be possible to do it with a bot, since the NBDb is already structured in a machine-friendly way.

This integration uses Module:NBDb, by the way, which is a copy of Catalan Wikipedia's [ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mòdul:Wikidades Wikidades module].

Also, note that I'm still checking that all NBDb identity items are complete so that the transition is seamingless, but it should be ready by the end of June (and manually-inputted parameters have priority over NBDb statements, so it shouldn't be a problem anyway).

Whew, sorry for the long post. But what do you think about these three changes? Let me know! :)

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Quick update: {{infobox identity}} is now updated with the new system. Next step is the person infobox, but it will be a while since I'm able to do that.

TXJ (talkcontribs)

So if I'm understanding right, we have to edit NNDB to get information in the infoboxes now? On another note, the infoboxes now appear above the article instead of to the right. Can that be fixed?

Ondo (talkcontribs)

@TXJ for the identity infoboxes, yes. A quick way to get to the linked NBDb page is using the Edit links option in the In other languages section (sidebar). New identities created here need to have an item created on the NBDb too, but it's a quick process (and I generally do it when I see a new one popping up in the recent changes).

The infoboxes still appear on the right side from my end, so that's weird. Can you send a screenshot of exactly how you see an article like nonbinary? You can upload it here on the wiki if you want.

TXJ (talkcontribs)
Ondo (talkcontribs)

Apparently I forgot to update the CSS for the infobox, my bad! It should be fixed now. Clear the browser cache with Ctrl+Shift+R on Chrome if you don't see it fixed.

TXJ (talkcontribs)

It's fixed now, except on at least one page (birl) the infobox doesn't show up.

Ondo (talkcontribs)

For some reason I deleted the old infobox instead of replacing it with the new. Fixed!

Summary by Ondo

Off-topic

Govlis63 (talkcontribs)

Hello I would like to know how you did to make the Citoid extension work, I installed the extension on my wiki after its shows me an error message I would like to know how you made it work this wiki, :) here is the error message that its indicates to me:

cutt.ly/NbLG9BZ

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi! You need to map the citoid reference types into the different citation templates you have in your wiki, whatever they might be. Copying and adapting MediaWiki:Citoid-template-type-map.json into your wiki should do the trick!

Govlis63 (talkcontribs)

Hi, Ondo, I tried to put: (MediaWiki: Citoid-template-type-map.json) and purge but still no result see my wiki = m.wikitamzon.org, on the local settings you should not put some thing?

Ondo (talkcontribs)

I can't access your wiki, it's not loading. In any case, this is not a support board for MediaWiki and although I configured it here, I'm not an expert at this. I suggest you use the regular support channels for MediaWiki. Thanks!

Govlis63 (talkcontribs)

Bonjour, Hello Ondo Here is the url of my site: shorturl.at/hprNO

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Please, don't reopen topics without a reason. As said, this is not a support site for MediaWiki and we can't help you. Please, refer to this web site for resources on MediaWiki and Citoid, as well as resources to ask for help. Thank you.

Small edit to the content policy

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Summary by Ondo

Content policy has been updated (Special:Diff/17387)

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi all! The Nonbinary Wiki:Content policy has a paragraph that is a little bit ambiguous:

In any case, original research is not allowed; the Nonbinary Wiki is not a place to coin new terms or pronouns, but to document existing ones. Content based on references that have been created specially for that content might be removed. (in the Notability section)

The purpose of this paragraph was to avoid people adding their own creations/coinages to the wiki, since we are about education, not promotion of new terms. However, the policy doesn't say that explicitly, so I suggest replacing this paragraph with the following:

In any case, original research is not allowed; the Nonbinary Wiki is not a place to coin new terms or pronouns, but to document existing ones. References that are tied to the editor who adding the content or that have been created specifically to work around this policy will be removed, together with the referenced content.

Let me know what you think about it!

Amazingakita (talkcontribs)

i think this makes it much clearer!

FishingRod (talkcontribs)

Hi, I'm a new user, and I need a bit of help. I'm going to be doing a bit of translating on the articles (English to Spanish), but a lot of genders don't have names in Spanish, so I loosely translate them. Example: Nullgener ≈ nulogénero. I was wondering if this would count as "coining new terms", as is mentioned in this thread. Can someone tell me or help see if there are already used translations?

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Bias towards femmes?

4
Summary by Ondo

Feedback about biases within the nonbinary community

92.0.115.80 (talkcontribs)

Most Western societies are biased towards masculinity, regardless of who it comes from. This is why tomboys are generally applauded whilst feminine boys are more likely to be isolated and bullied (please note that this is a generalisation, not a dismissal of your personal experience of gender roles).This is the main reason for trans misogyny and 'afab privilege'. Obviously trans-friendly places often try to compensate for this. As an agender teenager who falls on the feminine side of androgyny, I've noticed that many trans and nonbinary focused groups such as Tumblr and the Nonbinary Wiki seem to be slightly biased towards femmes. There are a disproportionate amount of positivity posts towards ɡender-nonconforminɡ trans boys and all trans ɡirl posts seem to assume a stereotypical 'wants to be a princess story'. ɪ'm obviously not a professional but if any butch enbies on the Wiki have noticed anything like this I think it would be at least an interesting discussion point.

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The wiki is edited by volunteers who choose their topics of interest, so biases are (unfortunately) expected. You can see an example of this in the article hormone therapy, which I recently wrote but could really complete the section relevant to transmasculine people. Hormone therapy is generally a topic that is not of my interest, and researching about transmasculine transition was outright boring to me (I'm AMAB, although not really feminine). This happens with many articles, and it's an issue with being a project 100% written by volunteers.

That being said, do you have any suggestions for improvement? We can't completely fix this issue, but I'm sure that we can definitely improve. And I'm open to all feedback! :)

Feel free to join our Discord server too (and, if you prefer to keep the discussion here, I recommend you create an account, so that we can better identify your messages!)

92.0.115.80 (talkcontribs)

OP here, Wow! That was a quick response. I think you may have misunderstood the problem I was referring to. It's less a matter of bias towards the transfeminine, as it is towards the trans* who happen to be feminine. I.e. it is a matter of presentation rather than identity. I.e. the bias is towards feminine trans guys feminine trans girls and women, feminine enbies... Clearly it's not the biggest problem facing the nonbinary community, it's not even the biggest problem coming from within the nonbinary community but it is still something that should probably be recognised. The only example that comes to mind right now is there being separate flags for femme transmasc and butch transmasc whilst every variation of trans girl/woman I've seen contains pink. I know that it is unrealistic to expect this to disappear overnight but like I said before; it's something that could stand to be more widely recognised as a thing and at the very least it could be an interesting discussion point.

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Oh, yes, I get it, you're talking about the stereotypical nonbinary person. We can't do anything on the wiki other than making sure that the articles about presentation cover all sides equally. We just take the information out there and put it here, so if flags have pink, then they will have pink here too, and there's nothing we can do about it!

Disabling anonymous edits

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Summary by Ondo

After some spam due to AbuseFilter not working with Flow by default, the situation seems to have stabilised.

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Hi all,

I have just disabled anonymous edits (i.e. coming from people without an account) as an emergency measure, since the automated Abuse Filter does not seem to work with Flow. Just today we had three spammers create threads in talk pages that would normally have been caught by the Filter. I will try to find a solution, but we will probably have to either get more people who can monitor recent changes and delete spam posts or keep editing to accounts only.

This wouldn't actually be a big change, since account creation is still open to anyone and most anonymous edits have always been spambots or trolls anyway. Let me know your thoughts!

Ondo (talkcontribs)

I have given back the edit, createpage, and createtalk permissions to anonymous users because I've found a way to have the AbuseFilter catch edits to Flow boards. I think global filters are still not with Flow, but at least we have more control than I previously thought.

Ondo (talkcontribs)

Another update: I've removed the createtalk permission from anonymous users because apparently the new filter is not enough. For now they still can edit regular articles, but I'm not sure how this interacts with Flow exactly, so if spam continues I'll completely remove editing abilities from anonymous users.