Nonbinary Wiki:General discussion/Archive 1

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Non-binary or nonbinary?

We should agree on what's the correct form. Reddit (and I think that Cassolotl too (here)) spell it nonbinary, while Wikipedia spells it non-binary (which is the form we use here, for the moment). If anybody thinks that nonbinary is better, just let us know and we will decide what form do we use. --NeoMahler (talk) 15:50, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I think that nonbinary is better because it's easier to type, it reads more smoothly, and it matches the URL of the wiki. However, I have no particularly strong opinion on the matter. odious_odes (yodel) 22:42, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I think "nonbinary" is better. It's being more and more commonly used, and a twitter poll by Neutrois Nonsense (http://neutrois.me) had more people voting for "nonbinary" than "non-binary". --Kaiforest (talk) 11:57, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiforest: thanks for your opinion! I will rename the wiki to Nonbinary wiki together with the project namespace. Than I will proceed to change all words that appear on articles (you can start doing this last thing, if you want). --NeoMahler (talk) 12:39, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

I have changed the wiki name to Nonbinary, updated the logo (the changes to the logo take some time to take effect, it seems) and also updated the rest of non-binary occurrences to nonbinary. --NeoMahler (talk) 18:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Rename the wiki to Non-binary wiki

Basically, the problem now is that the project namespace has the capital letter: Non-Binary:General discussion. I propose to change it to Non-binary wiki (also, it would follow better the style guide. If nobody disagrees I will fill a request to Phabricator soon. (Ping Cassolotl because active). --NeoMahler (talk) 16:20, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

I am totally down with that. :) --Cassolotl (talk) pronouns: they/them 21:50, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

@Cassolotl: requested. You might want to subscribe to the request to keep track of the progress. --NeoMahler (talk) 16:09, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

@NeoMahler: Looks like it's marked resolved! Awesome. :) --Cassolotl (talk) pronouns: they/them 17:51, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Are social networks good for references?

There are pages, like multigender, were almost all references are links to tumblr, which is a blog service/social network. I propose to remove these references and the corresponding content if we can't find any other references. Any thoughts? --NeoMahler (talk) 11:12, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

Since there's no participation in this thread, I will remove all references to tumblr and other social networks. --NeoMahler (talk) 09:28, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

I have removed all references and added an filter to warn users that add links to tumblr. --NeoMahler (talk) 11:05, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Obviously content referencing only tumblr or social networks isn't ideal, but at the moment the vast majority of information about nonbinary identities can be found in personal conversations (unciteable), on social networks, and in articles where a reporter is interviewing a single nonbinary person, which doesn't seem any more of a reliable source than social networks. It's still totally dependent on that one person talking getting their info right. If we don't allow citing social networks, that's leaving out a lot of primary source material, most particularly for terms that were coined on tumblr. Leaving them out just makes this resource less complete; I think a better solution would be a warning at the top of the article saying it cites a social network. --Kaiforest (talk) 12:10, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiforest: that's a good argument. The problem with social networks is that while they are a good source for us because all these words to describe gender identities are relatively new, they can also be "abused". If we agree on allowing tumblr links, we should try to establish some sort of criteria to be sure that the tumblr blog used is notable in some way. I have no idea on how to do this, though... what do you think about making the abusefilter just to encourage the user to look for other sources and add the warning you say on top of the article? (The abusefilter currently warns the user saying that tumblr is not allowed, tags the edit as "tumblr link" but doesn't prevent the user of performing the action). --NeoMahler (talk) 12:45, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@NeoMahler: I think the warning at the top is the best way of marking information from tumblr as less reliable to readers, and people can generally figure out for themselves whether that blog is trustworthy. Figuring out criteria sounds difficult to me, especially since sometimes people coin a word they want to use and otherwise don't post a lot of gender stuff. I think the continuation of the abusefilter while still allowing users to take the action is a good idea, but maybe instead of saying tumblr is not allowed, saying tumblr is only allowed if no other sources are available. --Kaiforest (talk) 15:09, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiforest: I have updated the Abuse Filter warning, you can see it in MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-tumblr. I have also created Template:Tumblr links and added it to Gender neutral titles and Ambonec (I have just restored this page, which was deleted because of that). Feel free to make any suggestion. --NeoMahler (talk) 17:22, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

This is kinda late, I know, but on the old nonbinary.org wiki there was a rule that in order to be on a mainspace page a gender or pronoun or whatever had to have evidence that more than a small handful of people use the word. This kept lists and reference sections useful and readable and processable. So a lot of gender words got moved to talk pages pending evidence from more than a Tumblr post that got a few notes, because that wasn't considered enough evidence of the term being in use - and it meant that all the historical and international genders that had been properly documented were more visible, too.

I would be in favour of this rule being introduced here, too. --Cassolotl (talk) pronouns: they/them 12:38, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

@Cassolotl: better late than never! So what exact requisites you used? more than 100 or 200 notes on tumblr? Or just ban tumblr entirely? --NeoMahler (talk) 14:18, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

AFAB/AMAB or the written-out forms?

Most of the time I see people use AFAB/AMAB instead of "assigned female at birth". Do you think it's a good idea to make AFAB (or AMAB) the main page? That's how it is at the moment but I wanted to make sure that was a reasonable course of action. --MxLexicon (talk) 2:42 8 April 2017 (UTC)

@MxLexicon: I think that it's better to use the most well-known form for the page titles. I have added the last line to the Naming conventions. Edit it if you think it's inaccurate! --NeoMahler (talk) 08:58, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

@MxLexicon: Checkout Assigned at birth- Both AFAB and AMAB redirect there. I think the acronym works and makes sense, so long as it links to the explanation. --Pyrollamasteak (talk) Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 5:12:30 am (UTC)

New main page and featured articles

Hi! I'm about to finish the new main page. There some things we have to decide together:

1. Featured articles: I have chosen 12 articles and put them in subpages of the Main Page (see here). I have chosen articles of different topics, not only identities. Let me know if you think that an article shouldn't be there, or if an article that is not there should be there. The featured article will automatically change every month.
2. Texts: please check all texts in the page and correct any errors you find. I'm not a native English speakers, so there's probably something wrong. Also, if you think that a text is too long or too short, feel free to change it, this is a wiki!
3. General format: I used the color scheme of the non-binary flag and a flat design because I love flat designs :P However, I'm open on any ideas you have! If you want to make a small change, you can make it directly in my subpage. If it's a big change, please create a new subpage under your user.

Thanks! --NeoMahler (talk) 11:59, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I love it! I made some small edits, including minor grammar points, but that's all. I think the colours and style are good. odious_odes (yodel) 15:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Odious odes: thanks! I have moved it to Main Page. --NeoMahler (talk) 14:31, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Archived version of nonbinary.org

I tried clicking the link on the main page and it said "Page cannot be displayed due to robots.txt". All the nonbinary.org pages show the same result. Is this just me or is it doing this for everyone? Is there another archived version we can work from? --Kaiforest (talk) 12:15, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

@Kaiforest: wow, two days ago it worked. I hope it's just a temporal issue and we can get it back soon. If not... well, we will have to work on the wiki without its help! --NeoMahler (talk) 12:47, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

It seems it's not a temporary issue. Probably the new [nonbinary.org nonbinary.org] has a robots.txt preventing the archiving :( --NeoMahler (talk) 13:28, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

What should we do about sexual/romantic orientations?

Hello,

The page Asexual was created some hours ago. I'm not sure if we should also include sexual and romantic orientations here. The AVENwiki is already a great resource for the asexual spectrum, although I can't find any other wiki about allosexual orientations.

Since this is the Nonbinary Wiki, sexual orientations seem out of scope to me. However, maybe we could allow articles regarding sexual orientations as a complementary topic? What do you think? (pinging @Niki Skylark: as the creator of said article). --NeoMahler (talk) 07:56, 19 May 2017 (UTC)

hello, it's Niki. I do not remember which page this was, but I found someone had requested/linked to an asexual page, which is why I originally made it. I am fine with removing it if you think it is irrelevant. I think some mentions of sexualities makes sense though to clarify how sexuality works for people who identify as nonbinary (for instance, can an agender person be heterosexual? What would that imply, etc.). Also, clarifying that bisexual doesn't mean attracted to only men and women, that sort of thing. 20:04, 21 May 2017 (UTC)Niki

@Niki Skylark: yes, LGBT links to asexual. Ok, I agree. If nobody else opposes we can include orientations. --NeoMahler (talk) 07:56, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

British/American spelling

Currently, some pages are written with British spelling (recognised) and some with American (recognized). Do we want to standardize this? 20:59, 21 May 2017 (UTC) Niki Skylark

@Niki Skylark: I don't think so. We can't force people to use a dialect when writing other than their own! Both dialects are mutually intelligible, so no problem in my opinion. --NeoMahler (talk) 07:58, 22 May 2017 (UTC)

Twitter account

Hi. Do you think that a Twitter account could help us? Why/why not? If you agree, I will create one. --NeoMahler (talk) 11:52, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

It could help point people towards this resource and possibly get us more editors/contributors. I don't think there's a particular harm in it, although tumblr might be a better place to advertise (that is where I found out about this wiki). Niki Skylark (talk) 17:05, 25 May 2017 (UTC) Niki Skylark

@Niki Skylark: Tumblr is also a good option (there's a lot of LGBT+ people there), but isn't it designed for longer text walls? On twitter we could post quick news links, new pages, article of the day... tumblr entries would be a lot more work! However, if you feel that you could maintain it, you can create the official tumblr page for the wiki and post resources there or whatever you feel like posting. I'm not a usual user of tumblr :P --NeoMahler (talk) 18:43, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I'm not in a place to be able to do that, but I'd support someone who made a tumblr. I agree, Twitter is better in those ways! --Niki Skylark (talk) 15:36, 27 May 2017 (UTC) Niki Skylark

@Niki Skylark: ok, I have created it. Also, I have added a link in the side bar and in the sitenotice. Let's see if this helps us!--NeoMahler (talk) 14:06, 1 June 2017 (UTC)